The Temple

John Crowder: Extremely Emerging Post-modern Post-Pentecostal

Every pastor has a bad sermon. I have had a few. Now I have something new to watch to help me get over my bad sermon blah’s…John Crowder. One look at this guys sermons and I can always say…”not as bad as that guy”, or I can just send a copy to the elders every week so they say, “At least Steve is better than that!”

Unbelievable. The following are some of John’s followers…

Drinking the Word. I really don’t know if this is just a huge spoof…The guy’s name is John Crowder, but he looks a lot like David Crowder…

Well, you can check out their explanation if you want below (John Crowder and Ben Dunn, Ben is John’s “Robin”), and check out their response to another blogger at zoecarnate.

They seem to be a cross between post Pentecostals and Emerging extremists. If you read the blog at zoecarnate you will see a guy who thinks he is smarter than you are, condescending to broadly criticize the whole of the church based on his straw man construction of the church. He consistently makes the mistake of bifurcation: The Holy Spirit is either mystical (in his opinion “right” and undefined) or intellectual (wrong and reflective of the traditional church). He also thinks that the culture determines the conduit of the message: In a post-modern context the only way to communicate is to be post-modern. I think the videos speak for themselves.

John Crowder & Ben Dunn on Drugs

ht: Scotteriology


July 30, 2008 - Posted by | Christianity, Church, Culture - Values, Emerging Church, Silly Stuff, Stupid Stuff | , , ,


  1. I think I’ll call you and just let you explain all this to me cuz I can’t watch it. Is he drunk?

    Comment by Ellen | July 30, 2008 | Reply

  2. And I don’t mean in the Spirit…

    Comment by Ellen | July 30, 2008 | Reply

  3. Hi there, did you mean to post this four times? ‘Cause that’s how often it’s here…

    Comment by zoecarnate | July 30, 2008 | Reply

  4. Zoecarnate…don’t know what that is about, I was having an interesting time with ScribeFire today, maybe it had something to do with that.

    Comment by Steve Bagdanov | July 30, 2008 | Reply

  5. Ellen,
    I don’t think I have an explanation. They say that they are drunk with the Spirit.

    Comment by Steve Bagdanov | July 30, 2008 | Reply

  6. I find it interesting the John Crowder calls himself a “user”. He’s right. He’s using God for his own “bliss” experiences, rather than being dead to this life and letting God use him! And where do you begin to address his bar tender angels? His being drunk in the spirit is nothing more than a trance state / altered state of consciousness. Jesus doesn’t turn people into drunks… he turns drunks into people. This is an abomination.

    I just posted two blogs comparing their mysticism to kundalini …. very telling. If you want to check them out the links are:

    Comment by truthspeaker | July 31, 2008 | Reply

  7. you should add to your list of Christian Envionmental orgs..

    Comment by reibwo | July 31, 2008 | Reply

  8. I think I would definately be more impressed with your sermons if you could keep your eyes closed the whole time like this guy and incorporate more cartoon noises like “boing oing oing”…just something to keep in mind for next sunday…

    Comment by Kristin George | July 31, 2008 | Reply

  9. First of all, thank you for your post, showing what is really going on today in our Christian world, unfortunately.
    Only objection I have, may be an advice, is on the terminology used Post-Pentecostal. Few month ago I wrote an article on Post-Pentecostalism which caused lots of discussion. I think the things that I addressed as being post-pentecostal is in contradiction to the video’s shown.
    You can read this in my blog and follow the link on Post-Pentecostalism. I hope this will bless you and the at the same will give you an idea of what I believe Post-Pentecostalism may stand form. We need a reformation within the Pentecostal Charismatic movement.
    Just read it in

    Comment by Samuel Lee | July 31, 2008 | Reply

  10. not even believable

    Comment by jamiesimko | July 31, 2008 | Reply

  11. Samuel,
    I was not aware of the discussion on Post-Pentecostalism and just thought it went well with “Post-Modern” in the title of the blog. I was not trying to chime in on any substantive discussion of post third wave characterizations of the Pentecostal movement, just trying to say that Crowder is way out there.

    Comment by Steve Bagdanov | July 31, 2008 | Reply

  12. […] personification of crap saw this video it would say, “At least I’m not that crappy!” Steve at The Temple suggests watching John Crowder videos to get you over any bad sermon blahs. Every bad, horrible, […]

    Pingback by Worst Preacher Ever: Crowder vs Robertson « Scotteriology | August 1, 2008 | Reply

  13. Worlds are colliding when Ben Dunn is quoting John Piper.

    Comment by Kyle | August 1, 2008 | Reply

  14. Is that a “pig” sound he is making? Sounds like he is “oinking”.

    David wilkerson said, “I can’t laugh when they make such a mockery of the Holy Ghost!”

    Comment by Sheeple | August 1, 2008 | Reply

  15. Are you even a preacher (christian)??? Cause if you were, you would know that blogs like this are outright unbiblical and very doctrinally incorrect. You should look up something about humility and love and grace…! Because if you were a christian (doubt it real seriously) you would not make comments like these… I pray that God has a soft touch in His judgement on you! “Judge not or you to will be judged”

    Comment by Jacob Wallace | August 3, 2008 | Reply

  16. Jacob,
    I am a Christian, and you should do your homework. We are to judge other Christians, and also point out the false prophets for all to see and stay away from. Don’t try and pull a small part of Scripture out of context and use it how you like. It doesn’t work that way. John Crowder, along with a host of many other manifestation, impartation, angel visitation, drunken glory, signs and wonders seeking false prophets are as unBiblical as they come. Try reading your Bible…

    Comment by The Gathering | August 4, 2008 | Reply

  17. Angel visitations are throughout the bible. God has always had prophets impart their gifts to others(Elijah, Elisha). Drunken glory started with the day of pentacost. Jesus said that his followers will be known by signs and wonders. Greater things shall we do, than Him (Christ), signs and wonders may be offensive to religion but not God. I pray that your anger will leave and that God will give you joy unspeakable. Whatever measure I have been given, I pray that God will give it to you. Now go toke the Ghost and praise God.

    Comment by marc mason | August 4, 2008 | Reply

  18. Jacob and Marc,
    It is amazing to me that such acts of foolishness would be equated with the ministry of Christ. These are not “great” things that are being done.
    I am certainly not angry, it causes me concern that people would be caught up in such ridiculous demonstrations. I really have only one word for you: simile.
    The Bible’s usage of the idea of drunkenness is not intended to be taken as permission to be stupid, or irrational. It is used in one instance to describe what people could not explain, and in another instance to say that the control of the Holy Spirit over a believer is critical – not that being filled with the Spirit causes us to behave in embarrassing ways.
    By the way, I am enjoying life in Christ. It is possible to do without some form of mind alteration and distortion. It is possible to do without acting like you are high. That lifestyle is not exemplary.
    Lastly, if you want to talk about the Bible, let’s do so. I am confident that your position is easily refuted.

    Comment by Steve | August 4, 2008 | Reply

  19. i was simply stating a fact that if you were truly a Christian you wouldn’t be behaving in such a manner that pulls others down and acts as if sarcasm is a fruit of the spirit. your response is written in a harsh manner, which brings me to my conclusion, that your intellect has made you so puffed up that you are blinded to even the basics of the word, Love, grace, mercy, etc. Read this and maybe you’ll see if you fit up to the things that God really likes in people. Proverbs 6:12 – 19, you (as I do) should use this as a filter for true biblical Christianity, instead of the filth you enjoy talking about! This isn’t about John or Ben or Glory, etc. it’s about you and how delusional you really are to say that you truly are a believer and yet don’t believe in the very thing that Jesus died for. LOVE! Even the bible says, Love your enemy, not put up blogs bashing their name, etc.

    Comment by Jacob Wallace | August 4, 2008 | Reply

  20. believe what you want about angels, about manifestations, etc. That’s not really even worth discussing. It’s always about Love, and my standpoint is there is no love in your posts about anything really! Why not post, about something positive that will be encouraging, not something so dead ended that it won’t go anywhere but glorify the creator of discord and your own intellect. if it’s not negative, it won’t make the cut, and that is a direct reflection of your life…. some say, why doesn’t John and Ben talk more about what they do. #1 simple reason, to busy fulfilling the great commission of making disciples. While this site on the other hand has to much time talking about everybody else’s interpretation of Scripture and how right they are! I just think that some people should actually do what the bible says rather than simply talk about what it says! By the way tell the apostle Paul he was crazy when he had his out of body experience and taken into paradise? 2 Corinthians 12:1-10

    Comment by Jacob Wallace | August 4, 2008 | Reply

  21. forgot to mention…. nice recovery with coming back with a less harsh comment! Maybe there is hope!

    Comment by Jacob Wallace | August 4, 2008 | Reply

  22. Jacob,
    I am not sure that I have been as “harsh” toward anyone, even towards John Crowder, as you have been in your 4 comments on this post.

    I said: When I have a bad sermon I can point to John Crowder and say “not as bad as that”
    Jacob says: I doubt seriously that you are even a christian (sic, thanks for the little “c” could that mean there is still hope for me?)

    I said: I really don’t know if this is a spoof…
    Jacob says: your intellect has made you so puffed up that you are blinded to even the basics of the word, Love, grace, mercy, etc

    I said: If you read the blog at zoecarnate you will see a guy who thinks he is smarter than you are, condescending to broadly criticize the whole of the church based on his straw man construction of the church.
    Jacob says: you enjoy talking about filth and you are delusional to say that you are truly a believer

    Jacob says: I only glorify the creator of discord and my own intellect…that the negativity of my posts is a direct reflection of my life

    That is pretty harsh and judgmental, but apparently the rules don’t apply to Jacob…or maybe he is still ruled by lex talionis.

    Jacob, there is a difference between speaking about someone’s public behavior, especially behavior done in the name of Christ that is objectionable, vulgar, embarrassing, and misleading, and speaking about someone’s character. The average viewer would assume that John and Ben are actually inebriated, not portraying a supposed spiritual drunkenness. It is questionable behavior, and it is open to criticism. IN FACT, if you read their piece on zoecarnate, they admit that they enjoy throwing rocks at hornets nests. They want the attention I unwittingly gave them on this blog. They like it.

    If it is serious (and I still can’t figure that out, I am suspicious that it is more a Robert Tilton kind of thing) then it is marginally effective if it is effective at all in proclaiming the gospel of Christ. My point is that it is not effective at all but in fact is destructive to the cause of Christ. I cannot imagine that my stance is extreme.

    Comment by Steve | August 4, 2008 | Reply

  23. It seems that being judgemental is the case here. You say I judge, and by the same standards you judge others you to are being judged by another fellow believer in Christ. I guess all judgements are only made by those who thinks they are not false prophets. And yes, I am judging your character (fruit) because that’s what believers are supposed to judge by. because that is the very thing you are doing when you judge someone’s behavior, because behavior is a result of character and John and Ben’s Character is upright because they don’t have blogs about you on the internet bashing your name! Bottom line for me is this (honest truth) You believe in Jesus as the way to heaven? I do to! Let all the rest of the stuff be in the realm of Grace and mercy. And let’s actually be the church God created us to be living in his Complete Love, and living in that (dunamis) power of His Spirit. I have to say that even with strong disagreements on the way things are handled, I still appreciate the fact that you are doing what you feel nessescary for the Kingdom. I do appreciate the fact that people actually still care about what the bible says. I just think that to quick of judgements are made before actually reading the book. You don’t have to like the cover of the book, but it gives no one any right to say the book is bad. I’m not trying to convince you of anything. I was just seeing what you’re response would be you know (throw rocks at the hornets nest) to see if it would reflect the lifestyle that Christ led, even to death. You don’t have to “act” drunk or high to be completely intoxicated with the presence of Jesus. So don’t do it then. But also, don’t bash the ones who are simply enjoying Christ in the manner they want. It would be a shame if someone told you how to walk out your walk with the Lord. Of course you wouldn’t listen, because it’s working for you (I guess another reason for the responses on my behalf). Let em get drunk, high, and let God be the judge for it, not man. Judge them on their fruits of how many people are actually being set free from addictions, healings, miracles, etc. Anyway, I have to say, much love from fellow believer and church planter/missionary…… By the way the little “c” was simply plain laziness. It was 1am in the morning to tired to worry about capitalization.

    Comment by Jacob Wallace | August 5, 2008 | Reply

  24. what on earth??????

    Comment by Leonard | August 5, 2008 | Reply

  25. Father, father, father…there you go again with your pompous, self-righteous opinions. You take the time to write these opinions down in a Blog? All that time? You couldn’t possibly have any other free time to be pursuing Love in the biblical sense.

    Open your mind father. Open it so wide that gray matter begins spilling out. Tokin the Ghost will seem outright splendid then.

    Maybe we should all just pop a Holy Spirit Valium.

    Comment by Tim Bagdanov | August 9, 2008 | Reply

  26. wow! these guys are just mocking Christianity, can’t you all see that? what a joke!

    Comment by James McLean | August 18, 2008 | Reply

  27. Jacob,
    Maybe you misunderstood me. I do love and pray for my fellow Christians, and even my enemies as God commanded. But I have no love for demonic doctrine and demonized cult leaders. Any doctrine that is wrong is demonic, and this is demonic. Demons should be exposed by demon hunters.

    Jeremiah 14:14
    14 Then the LORD said to me, “The prophets are prophesying lies in my name. I have not sent them or appointed them or spoken to them. They are prophesying to you false visions, divinations, idolatries and the delusions of their own minds. 15 Therefore, this is what the LORD says about the prophets who are prophesying in my name: I did not send them, yet they are saying, ‘No sword or famine will touch this land.’ Those same prophets will perish by sword and famine.

    2 Peter 2
    False Teachers and Their Destruction
    1 But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves. 2 Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute. 3 In their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping.

    Comment by The Gathering | August 19, 2008 | Reply

  28. I have had the pleasure of hanging out with John and Ben, and what I saw was not demonic doctrine or demonized cult leaders. What I saw was two men that love Jesus with all there hearts and they are open to whatever God wants to do in them and through them. When I look at them I don’t jump to conclusions, I take it to Jesus to see what He has to say. I read my Bible to see what it says, but I spend even more time in prayer (with four kids under ten that can be difficult). I ask Jesus about these things and see what He says. What I heard was Peter in Acts 2 saying that these men are not drunk as you suppose. That got me praying even more. So maybe these men are not drunk as you suppose. God bless you for standing for Jesus.

    With love,
    Staff Sergeant Vincent Ream
    U.S. Army

    Comment by Vince | August 21, 2008 | Reply

  29. i finally figured out why john crowder walks funny, after i read his statement about how he mimics shooting up heroin. he’s doing the junkie shuffle, rubbing his belly and all. all he needs to add is a bit of scratching and face wiping. i wonder if they’ll have Holy Spirit rehab with withdrawals and such since they love the drug culture thing so much. honestly, i don’t even think real drug addicts act that stupid. generally they don’t glorify their activities, they try to “maintain”, and they do their business in private rather than as a social activity. they aren’t proud of it and they are always trying to quit, and they don’t sit around making faces and talking about how great it feels, etc. as a former drug user all i can say is LAME! they are reaching out to very young people, and that is unconscionable. the Holy Spirit is not an it.

    Comment by windy | August 23, 2008 | Reply

  30. Vincent,
    Peter was not talking about these guys, you need to read more carefully. Prayer and Bible study are not competing and contradictory practices, rather they are mutual and affirming. So if “Jesus” told you that Peter was talking about Crowder and Dunn, rest assured “Jesus” was not talking to you.

    Thanks Windy…pun???

    Comment by Steve | August 23, 2008 | Reply

  31. “You believe in Jesus as the way to heaven? I do to!”

    Am I to think that most everyone here believes that to be the gospel of Jesus Christ? If that is, indeed, the gospel, it seems we need only one page in our Bibles, and it says in big, bold, desperate letters, “TURN OR BURN, SINNER!”

    Comment by susankps | August 26, 2008 | Reply

  32. Susan,
    What verse are you quoting?

    Comment by Steve | August 26, 2008 | Reply

  33. Sorry, I was quoting Jacoh (8/5). I thought it was interesting that there was no response to his comment. I was just wondering if y’all were down with his assumption or not.

    Comment by susankps | August 26, 2008 | Reply

  34. Well Susan,
    I just stopped with Jacob, I couldn’t really follow his line of reasoning so I thought I could just let his ramblings speak for themselves, as does Crowder’s foolishness. I wouldn’t say I was “down” with anything he is trying to say.

    Comment by Steve | August 26, 2008 | Reply

  35. You are a bunch of freaks!

    Comment by Pete R. | September 13, 2008 | Reply

  36. I think we should get John Piper and John Crowder together for a coming out party!

    Comment by Roger Flyer | November 21, 2008 | Reply

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